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fudgemeister

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PostSubject: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:56 am

Isent the following pm to SBFII Board member cicichi:
Originally Posted by fudgemeister
As a member of the board, I am making a formal complaint to you about all the people put on pre-moderation. Some of them had not posted in two months. How can it be allowed that there are blanket punishments like this. It is highly unfair!

She responded back:
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Response to your two PMs
Greetings to you, Fudge, I hope you don't mind me shortening your name. Sorry, it has taken me a week to respond to your PM you sent me last Sunday. I teach elementary school and many days this week have worked into the evening, which does not give me much time to be at the forum. I was not able to connect with a staff person until yesterday. Today I had to attend the SBFII Finance Meeting. I tell you all of this to let you know, I have been super busy but I have not forgotten you request to find out why a whole group was put on Pre Moderation.

This is what I have found out: The persons who were put on Pre Moderation had received a warning prior to Pre Moderation status. I was told you had received such from Kalua. Although to you, it might look like it was a group, as one entity, move to place all on Pre Moderation, I was told that was not the case. Each person was considered individually and the decision reached was done individually.

Fudge, I know it is not a good feeling to be reprimanded, whether by a warning or by being placed on Pre Moderation. I view each member of the forum as a valuable contributor to this fansite whose purpose to to follow the wonderful, rising star of the best singer in our time. There will always be tensions when we share different views. Someone's stepping over the line, might be another person's stepping up to the line to get their point heard. It is my hope, that you and the others who have stayed will serve out your period of Pre Moderation and remain members of this forum. You still have the previlege to read, to post, and to PM.

Now, Fudge, as to this recent message of yours. It saddens me to think such an event happened. But that is definitely not a respectful way to interact. Fudge, we are not all perfect, many embarassing things are said 'behind closed door'; similary to embarassing things said when the person thinks they are talking off the cuff next to mike they think is off and it is not This does not justify what happened, it just acknowledges that it does happen. As the Bible story goes, who of us can throw the first stone?

Fudge, I know you stated you did not get this information illegally; it still bothers me that you have obtained information that was placed in the Staff Room Chat area which is off limits to both you and me. The Staff Room Chat area is confidential and available only to staff. That is MHO.

Frudge, I hope I have helped in some way to answer the question you posed. I look forward to your continuing the journey of following Susan on this site.

Peace and Love.

I then responded back to her:
Re: Response to your two PMs
With due respect, what kalua is saying is bull. How can members who had not posted in 2 months get punished? Was the punishment given for a warning that was given 2 months previously? How was it that all 8 punishments were given within 10 minutes of each other? These were not punishments considered on an individual basis no matter what kalua says. As for the staff room chat, those people are the biggest hypocrites imaginable. I have received timeouts for far lesser infractions than what those individuals said in their chats! It shows an arrogance that is beyond the pale! Do as I say, not as I do MUST be their motto! For those people to discipline anybody is a travesty of the highest order!

Three days have passed since I sent the last pm. There has been no response from cicichi. Since I am unable to post at SBFII I am addressing this to cicichi. I am certain that someone at SBFII will alert her to this posting.
Cicichi, you have now been made aware of several facts in the past three months-
1. There was a vote by the Board that was declared to be unanimous. You, however, said later on, that you had voted against the motion. In essence, the Board lied to the membership, but, more importantly, they NEGATED YOUR VOTE! That was disrespectful to you!
2. Kalua claimed that the punishment of 8 members was not a group punishment; but was decided on a case by case basis. The punishments that were meted out were in defiance of SBFII's own rules! It defies logic that they were considered on an individual basis.
3. You have seen the Staff Room chat revelation about posting a pm of WAMcKinley to a moderator. That pm was personal and had nothing to do with forum business. In fact, the pm was a show of caring and concern for that moderator. And what does that moderator do; she posts it for its snickering value!
4. If you come to this guest forum you will read many other revelations about the administration and staff of SBFII. What they wrote about members is despicable by anyone's standards.
5. You have seen how they have treated wonderful and caring members like dyebat and IChris. All dyebat did was buy the site and hand it over to people, who, in the end, betrayed her! I believe you are a friend of dyebat?

Given all of this, and given the fact that you, as a board member, are there to protect and represent members' interests, how can you live with yourself and NOT resign? Is the staff's rights more important than the members' rights? Cicichi, it is NEVER too late to regain the moral high ground!



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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:48 am

Fudgemeister said -

"With due respect, what kalua is saying is bull. How can members who had not posted in 2 months get punished? Was the punishment given for a warning that was given 2 months previously? "

*****************************************************************

Just to be clear - I was placed on pre-mod along with the rest, in late February. I hadn't posted EW since December 13. I received one warning somewhere along the way for some so-called infraction, the exact nature and date of which escapes me at the moment - but I believe it was in October, or possibly even September. So - the 'punishment' of pre-mod was, in my case, apparenty imposed on the basis of a single warning that I'd received, not two months earlier, but more like four or five months earlier.

Cuckoo
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:10 pm



Just to be clear as well: I received only 1 warning almost a year ago, and my last post ew was only a few weeks before the pre-moderation, and not at all offensive or disturbing.

And to be even clearer: I received no warning before the pre-moderation was announced.
So much for the rules... No No No
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:17 pm

tonnie_rocca wrote:


Just to be clear as well: I received only 1 warning almost a year ago, and my last post ew was only a few weeks before the pre-moderation, and not at all offensive or disturbing.

And to be even clearer: I received no warning before the pre-moderation was announced.
So much for the rules... No No No

I received no warning immediately prior to the pre-moderation announcement either, as I say, the sole warning I received was some 4 or 5 months prior to the pre-mod announcement. Was placed on pre-mod out of the blue because, like the rest, my posts were deemed 'provocative'. Question Question Question

It would be asking wayyyyyy too much to expect them to have the danglies to explain exactly what they were getting at, or, in the alternative, simply to admit that they don't like this particular group of people and have decided that they're not going to permit them full privileges at their site, based on their posts and activities at other sites. I could, in a perverse way, respect that kind of honesty. But I won't hold my breath.
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:31 pm

I think it's insanity to keep banging your head against the wall and think it's ever going to change anything. And why cicichi? Doesn't she have very little power there? (Just wondering)
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:52 pm

nevermore wrote:
I think it's insanity to keep banging your head against the wall and think it's ever going to change anything. And why cicichi? Doesn't she have very little power there? (Just wondering)
She IS a member of the board. I know the rest are hopeless to try to persuade.
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:28 pm

In general, yes, I would say that all the members of the Board who are not moderators have very little power; even the mods have little say. The ones who have the most power there are Pickled Tink and Kalua. Even though Kalua isn't officially a member of the board -- legally he cannot be -- I'm quite sure that he sits in on all the meetings, too.

What they have done is in clear violation of any "netiquette" or customary forum rules. It is unthinkably arrogant of them to take action against members of their site simply for being members at another site. It is stunning beyond belief that they would have the gall to attempt to "discipline" someone at their site for something which he or she said or did at another site. It also doesn't make much sense to "discipline" someone for something they did several months ago. That's like smacking the dog's nose with a newspaper several days after the dog had an accident in the house. This kind of oppression only breeds mistrust, fear and loathing.

In other forums I have participated in, when a member does need to be chastised for something it is done immediately after the transgression has occurred and the member receives an explanation of why action is being taken, with the rule or policy that he/she has broken being cited, as well as a specific time frame for when the punishment will be lifted. That is only common courtesy and common sense.



Last edited by Clix Pix on Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:28 pm

nevermore wrote:
I think it's insanity to keep banging your head against the wall and think it's ever going to change anything. And why cicichi? Doesn't she have very little power there? (Just wondering)

I agree. I think Fudge PM'ed her because he thought she was a little independent from TPTB and thus, might be more likely to provide a straight answer. Unfortunately that little PM exchange demonstrates her level of power (or lack thereof) EW.
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:31 pm

Yeah well, I once got a warning from them because I had a game in an online gaming account they didn't approve of! I hadn't posted it on EW, but they noticed it when I posted something else! Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:44 pm

Admin wrote:
Yeah well, I once got a warning from them because I had a game in an online gaming account they didn't approve of! I hadn't posted it on EW, but they noticed it when I posted something else! Rolling Eyes
They ought to embarrassed to have such silly reasons for warning someone.


Last edited by knudt on Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:44 pm

As I posted elsewhere in the SusaHumor Forum:

Again, just for the record...

I was put on "pre-moderation" on January 11, 2011, for posting the following question: Why has knudt been banned?

I was not given a warning of any kind. I was not sent a PM. There was no notification or explanation from anyone at all.
Since I joined the forum back in June of 2009, and when it was a blog before that, I was never, ever, given a warning for anything, never had a post deleted or even edited. Needless to say, the question I posted was never answered.

I resigned on January 12.
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:54 pm

I resigned in Dec 2009 because I didn't like the way the administration at SBFII treated their members. After I resigned I found out BANNED was under my name. I still have my copy of my resignation letter I posted. But that was then and it sure hasn't changed. Sad


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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:01 pm

The truth of the matter is that their membership is basically made up of ultra-right wing conservative born again preacher types and they have no tolerance for anyone who differs from that. The reason they basically banned humour was because the preachers, who basically run the site in all but name, thought it was getting in the way of all the praying and conversions they were trying to carry out. Religion is big business! Cha-ching! Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:52 pm

Seems to me that their behavior isn't very "Christian."
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:01 pm

Clix Pix wrote:
Seems to me that their behavior isn't very "Christian."

There isn't anything Christian about it. The question is IF they are Christians.......

WHAT WOULD JESUS DO. ??.....

Are they following in His steps with TRUTH and LOVE. It sure doesn't seem like it.
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:04 pm

mdillow31 wrote:
Clix Pix wrote:
Seems to me that their behavior isn't very "Christian."

There isn't anything Christian about it. The question is if they are Christians.......

WHAT WOULD JESUS DO. ??.. Or they following in His steps with TRUTH and LOVE. It sure doesn't seem like it.
They are Christians like I am a Christian! As Moderator L might say, OY VEY!!!! laughcry laughcry laughcry laughcry laughcry laughcry laughcry laughcry laughcry laughcry
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:12 pm

Prejudice behavior is not a feine human quality and it is practices by Christians and atheists and other faiths.
The behavior of some of the people in charge is not a fine human quality that most people aspirer too..It has nothing to do with being a Christian or not it has all to do with the ethical compass of a person regardless if the person is Christian or not.. In my life time I have met very fine human beings that have been non Christians and also very fine human beings that were Christians. Just because a person goes to church does not make them a Christian. Faith is a way of life not just a convenience or Sabbath experience.

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Humans are ambitious and rational and proud. And we don't fall in line with people who don't respect us and who we don't believe have our best interests at heart. We are willing to follow leaders, but only to the extent that we believe they call on our best, not our worst.

- Rachel Maddo


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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:12 pm

I would like to also add that Xeno was put on pre-mod and she never had a formal warning. Not only that before I was banned she didn't say anything at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:33 am

Sassyone wrote:
I would like to also add that Xeno was put on pre-mod and she never had a formal warning. Not only that before I was banned she didn't say anything at all.
Unfortunately for Xeno, she was on their pita (pain in the ass) list! No No No No No No No No No No No No
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:47 am

"Given all of this, and given the fact that you, as a board member, are there to protect and represent members' interests, how can you live with yourself and NOT resign? Is the staff's rights more important than the members' rights? Cicichi, it is NEVER too late to regain the moral high ground!" quote from Fudgemeister's post.

In fairness to cicichi, she can only make decisions based on the information she is given. She is a very conscientious teacher, which entails working both all day and many nights, so she does not have the time to spend all day on multiple forums like some of the rest of us. She does not yet have the extensive experience of being lied to, and lied about, that some of the rest of us have had. The office of treasurer was dumped on her because nobody else wanted it. She would have been an ideal secretary because she is accurate and complete in her reporting, as opposed to the actual secretary, who is not. We already know of at least one occasion in which her voting was incorrectly reported; we don't know how
many other times invalid voting or other data was submitted as part of the Board meeting minutes. Nor do we know what misinformation she was given, or what critical information was withheld from her. The information she was given about the recent bannings which occurred without the warnings the rules require was false, but she had no way to know that unless the ones who were banned told her.

She had absolutely nothing to do with the sabotage on July 18, and she was courageous enough to accept a position on the Board during that very dark time. We have no idea what she has endured in that position, what good she may have done, or what evil she may have prevented. If she chooses to stay in that position because she thinks she can benefit the membership, that is her prerogative, just as Fudge chooses to stay as a member at SBFII for his own reasons. Once the school year started, we have not been able to keep in contact as much as during the summer months, but I still consider her my friend.

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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:12 am

Thank you for that, dyebat. I think Cicichi is as kind as they come. I think she's also very trusting and naturally assumes people she works with are good and telling her the truth. She was responding to Fudge in all good faith, and she was put in a terribly unfair position by Kalua's lies. I don't like to see anyone misled, especially not someone as sincere and loyal as she is.
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:26 am

dyebat wrote:
"Given all of this, and given the fact that you, as a board member, are there to protect and represent members' interests, how can you live with yourself and NOT resign? Is the staff's rights more important than the members' rights? Cicichi, it is NEVER too late to regain the moral high ground!" quote from Fudgemeister's post.

In fairness to cicichi, she can only make decisions based on the information she is given. She is a very conscientious teacher, which entails working both all day and many nights, so she does not have the time to spend all day on multiple forums like some of the rest of us. She does not yet have the extensive experience of being lied to, and lied about, that some of the rest of us have had. The office of treasurer was dumped on her because nobody else wanted it. She would have been an ideal secretary because she is accurate and complete in her reporting, as opposed to the actual secretary, who is not. We already know of at least one occasion in which her voting was incorrectly reported; we don't know how
many other times invalid voting or other data was submitted as part of the Board meeting minutes. Nor do we know what misinformation she was given, or what critical information was withheld from her. The information she was given about the recent bannings which occurred without the warnings the rules require was false, but she had no way to know that unless the ones who were banned told her.

She had absolutely nothing to do with the sabotage on July 18, and she was courageous enough to accept a position on the Board during that very dark time. We have no idea what she has endured in that position, what good she may have done, or what evil she may have prevented. If she chooses to stay in that position because she thinks she can benefit the membership, that is her prerogative, just as Fudge chooses to stay as a member at SBFII for his own reasons. Once the school year started, we have not been able to keep in contact as much as during the summer months, but I still consider her my friend.

Dyebat, the only reason I approached cicichi was, given the make-up of the board, I felt that she was the best person to plead our case to. As far as my staying at SBFII, I refuse to resign to PT and Kalua. I have been a member there since the beginning, just about. WHY should I resign? I have been an active member the whole time. They are the ones who screwed up the site, not me! It will be a cold day in hell before I resign to those two! They should resign from their positions!
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:26 am

I'm not suggesting you should resign, Fudge. You have your reasons not to. I'm just suggesting you give cicichi the same choice. She has a right to make her own decisions, based on what she thinks is the best thing to do, just as you do. I think it is a good idea to let her know what's going on, because she has no opportunity otherwise, but her way of dealing with it may not be the same as yours or mine.
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:13 am

I am not asking that she resign her membership. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the board members supposed to be representing the members, and NOT the administration? There is no way that the punishments meted out could have happened the way kalua describes. PT's thread of that day predicted that the punishments were coming. And come they did, a few hours later. It defies logic to think otherwise. Yet, cicichi took kaluas words over that of members who she represents. She is part of the powers that be. Who else can I complain to?
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:54 am

Admin wrote:
The truth of the matter is that their membership is basically made up of ultra-right wing conservative born again preacher types and they have no tolerance for anyone who differs from that. The reason they basically banned humour was because the preachers, who basically run the site in all but name, thought it was getting in the way of all the praying and conversions they were trying to carry out. Religion is big business! Cha-ching! Rolling Eyes

The REAL Jesus would have been banned within ten minutes of joining that place. He had this nasty habit of questioning and challenging the status quo, not to mention going into Rant Mode whenever he encountered people exploiting other people--and their purses--in the name of religion.
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:27 pm

BohemianSpirit wrote:
Admin wrote:
The truth of the matter is that their membership is basically made up of ultra-right wing conservative born again preacher types and they have no tolerance for anyone who differs from that. The reason they basically banned humour was because the preachers, who basically run the site in all but name, thought it was getting in the way of all the praying and conversions they were trying to carry out. Religion is big business! Cha-ching! Rolling Eyes

The REAL Jesus would have been banned within ten minutes of joining that place. He had this nasty habit of questioning and challenging the status quo, not to mention going into Rant Mode whenever he encountered people exploiting other people--and their purses--in the name of religion.

True and that includes lying and calling members names behind their back....

The Ten Commandments:

" Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor. "
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:56 pm

mdillow31 wrote:
BohemianSpirit wrote:
Admin wrote:
The truth of the matter is that their membership is basically made up of ultra-right wing conservative born again preacher types and they have no tolerance for anyone who differs from that. The reason they basically banned humour was because the preachers, who basically run the site in all but name, thought it was getting in the way of all the praying and conversions they were trying to carry out. Religion is big business! Cha-ching! Rolling Eyes

The REAL Jesus would have been banned within ten minutes of joining that place. He had this nasty habit of questioning and challenging the status quo, not to mention going into Rant Mode whenever he encountered people exploiting other people--and their purses--in the name of religion.

True and that includes lying and calling members names behind their back....

The Ten Commandments:

" Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor. "
I know so-called Christians who do that repeatedly. It must not register on their ethical compass.

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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:12 pm

Now, Fudge, as to this recent message of yours. It saddens me to think such an event happened. But that is definitely not a respectful way to interact. Fudge, we are not all perfect, many embarassing things are said 'behind closed door'; similary to embarassing things said when the person thinks they are talking off the cuff next to mike they think is off and it is not This does not justify what happened, it just acknowledges that it does happen. As the Bible story goes, who of us can throw the first stone?

I agree with you cicichi. I have said denigrating things on this forum about staff at SBFII. however, the difference is that I am NOT in a position of power in regard to those people. They have the unique powers of guiding discussions and CENSORING those discussions! Given that power, and what they have said in their "private" chats, they should NOT be allowed to have those powers. Their bias is proven in those chats.
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:39 pm

lChris has just posted again to her blog as of March 3, 2011.

lChris says in one part....

" The other data being published online has been collected by members and former members through several permission error incidents that allowed access to the Staff Room."

That means the techs that are assigned those duties at SBFII left the back door open where ANY member could see what the admins and mods were talking about privately. It is their own fault if private information and postings were seen by members. Maybe they need to take a course in how to run a forum.

lChris never left that door open for others to see. So that leaves two assigned techs by SBFII administration that we know of that didn't protect the so called "Staff Room" presently at SBFII or other members of their administration team.




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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:37 pm

Sounds to me like SBFII needs to get some smarter and more skilled "techs" on board before some real catastrophe happens.......
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:02 pm

So much diversity in this thread so much truth and untruths self exposed....study

Opinions are formed in a process of open discussion and public debate, and where no opportunity for the forming of opinions exists, there may be moods -- moods of the masses and moods of individuals, the latter no less fickle and unreliable than the former -- but no opinion.

- Hannah Arendt


Just imagine this what a wonderful world it would be.

Imagine connecting with the human spirit in each person in any situation at any time.

Imagine interacting with others in a way that allows everyone's need to be equally valued.

Imagine creating organizations and life-serving systems responsive to our needs and the needs of our environment.

- Marshall Rosenberg


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Wabbit

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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:12 pm

mdillow31 wrote:
lChris has just posted again to her blog as of March 3, 2011.

lChris says in one part....

" The other data being published online has been collected by members and former members through several permission error incidents that allowed access to the Staff Room."

That means the techs that are assigned those duties at SBFII left the back door open where ANY member could see what the admins and mods were talking about privately. It is their own fault if private information and postings were seen by members. Maybe they need to take a course in how to run a forum.

lChris never left that door open for others to see. So that leaves two assigned techs by SBFII administration that we know of that didn't protect the so called "Staff Room" presently at SBFII or other members of their administration team.



PS...Since Cicichi mentioned the "Staff Chat Room" maybe now she will understand what happened.
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:01 pm

CP I agree, they need to get better tech people...a few weeks before I was banned, I told them to upgrade the V-Bull software as it needs to be done. It's for security reasons only not to be paranoid. When you don't you actually run the risk of being hacked. But hacking isn't clicking links to areas that the banned person cannot get too and get a 403 error each time. Maybe they shouldn't be tech admins.
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fudgemeister

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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:23 pm


“In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
einstini15
Martin Niemöller quotes ((Friedrich Gustav Emil) Martin Niemöller. Lutheran pastor and outspoken opponent of Hitler German Pastor,
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PostSubject: Re: Open Letter To Cicichi   Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:17 am

fudgemeister wrote:

“In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
einstini15
Martin Niemöller quotes ((Friedrich Gustav Emil) Martin Niemöller. Lutheran pastor and outspoken opponent of Hitler German Pastor,

This deserves to be posted at the top of its own thread, here in the Guest Forum.
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