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tonnie_rocca

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PostSubject: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:59 pm



IMHO, Susan's song has nothing to do with christianity or believers, how much some people want to be convinced of that...

It has instead ALL to do with the human condition, we are alone and lost here downunder, and so much longing not to be that.

So for me it's an universal human song.

And I appreciate it for that, apart from the singing, which is superb and beyond (my) words ... Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:10 pm

Yeah, but the loonies have convinced themselves that it's a religious song. Mind you, I'm sure those lot could find some kind of religious meaning in humpty dumpty or something! Rolling Eyes
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Clix Pix

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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:12 pm

I agree with you, Tonnie, and from the first time I heard the song, when we only had the videos of the Swedish singer and the other one (neither name can I recall right now), even at that point I realized that all they'd have to do would be to clip out the first nine lines of the song to make it more universally appealing (remove the references to the loss of a child, etc., as while that is relevant to the musical from which the song originates, it is not necessary to sing those lines outside of that particular context). As it is sung by Susan it becomes more universal in meaning.

Unfortunately it seems that too many listeners have grasped this song to their bosoms, focusing only on their particular interpretation, which in their eyes makes it a religious song. It's not, it doesn't have to be at all related to G*d or to anyone's particular religion, the sentiments expressed therein can be indeed far more universally-applied than that.

Yes, regardless of anyone's interpretation of this song, Susan sings it powerfully and with passion and conviction.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:15 pm

Christians want to believe the song is about reaching out to God in a time of need which is a very self-centered selfish attitude. Like the Higher Power is going to drop everything and service the Christians needs and wants. They want to believe that is what Susan is doing when she sings YHTBT and of course God answered her prayers and made her rich and famous. They want what Susan got from God and that's why they are interpeiting the song in that way. Those of us who aren't self centered and selfish, interpret the song in a much different way that has nothing to do with God.
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bernicer

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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:44 pm

Just like most things we hear, read, smell, touch or taste. we connect because of our personal thoughts or experiences. That song can mean whatever the listener wants it to mean, JMHO.
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WAMcKinley

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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:32 pm

WHAAAT?? Of course that song has a religious undertone,---how else could you possibly interpret it??? Who is the singer speaking to, if not to her god?? Whose hand is she reaching out for if not god's?? She sure isn't imploring Obama to help her----or HRH, ElizabethII. Yes, of course we can choose to see it in other ways,---but I think we have to accept that the original intent of the writers of this song and the musical had god in mind when they had this wretched woman crying out in torment and desperation. I can enjoy the song for other reasons, as a non-believer. But I think it's wrong to deny the intent of the writers as to the original meaning of the song, simply because we, ourselves, might not be Christians or conventionally religious.
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kakariki

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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:02 pm

WAMcKinley wrote:
WHAAAT?? Of course that song has a religious undertone,---how else could you possibly interpret it??? Who is the singer speaking to, if not to her god?? Whose hand is she reaching out for if not god's?? She sure isn't imploring Obama to help her----or HRH, ElizabethII. Yes, of course we can choose to see it in other ways,---but I think we have to accept that the original intent of the writers of this song and the musical had god in mind when they had this wretched woman crying out in torment and desperation. I can enjoy the song for other reasons, as a non-believer. But I think it's wrong to deny the intent of the writers as to the original meaning of the song, simply because we, ourselves, might not be Christians or conventionally religious.

I agree. She is certainly singing to God. But I would say those that see it as her embracing her God for support are wrong. I get a more desperate attempt at trying to find assurance that there is a God to cling to, when reality has shown her that her faith has been unwarranted. There is a big difference in pleading for him to be there, if not she is lost, to saying God is keeping her from being lost because of her faith. She is pleading out of despair to something she has come to doubt.

The song certainly has a religious nature, but not in the sense of what is thought of as a religious song. She is questioning her faith not finding comfort in it.

Sort of how broken-heart songs are about love, but they certainly aren't love songs.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:34 pm

Is there God in the song? Because if there isn't then it's not a religious song. She could be singing to anyone
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WAMcKinley

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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:36 pm

kakariki wrote:
WAMcKinley wrote:
WHAAAT?? Of course that song has a religious undertone,---how else could you possibly interpret it??? Who is the singer speaking to, if not to her god?? Whose hand is she reaching out for if not god's?? She sure isn't imploring Obama to help her----or HRH, ElizabethII. Yes, of course we can choose to see it in other ways,---but I think we have to accept that the original intent of the writers of this song and the musical had god in mind when they had this wretched woman crying out in torment and desperation. I can enjoy the song for other reasons, as a non-believer. But I think it's wrong to deny the intent of the writers as to the original meaning of the song, simply because we, ourselves, might not be Christians or conventionally religious.

I agree. She is certainly singing to God. But I would say those that see it as her embracing her God for support are wrong. I get a more desperate attempt at trying to find assurance that there is a God to cling to, when reality has shown her that her faith has been unwarranted. There is a big difference in pleading for him to be there, if not she is lost, to saying God is keeping her from being lost because of her faith. She is pleading out of despair to something she has come to doubt.

The song certainly has a religious nature, but not in the sense of what is thought of as a religious song. She is questioning her faith not finding comfort in it.

Sort of how broken-heart songs are about love, but they certainly aren't love songs.
_______________________________________________________________

I believe that songs concerning questioning one's faith are as much religious songs as songs about lost love are love songs. The underlying themes are still religion and love, whether one is doubting or is a believer,----whether one has found love or has lost it. A lot of questioning and doubt goes on in religion, despite what the religious zealots would have us believe. It's just part of human nature.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:37 pm

LMiller4Susan wrote:
Is there God in the song? Because if there isn't then it's not a religious song. She could be singing to anyone
_________________________________________________________________

The words, "my god" and "lord" appear at least once in the lyrics, if not more.
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LMiller4Susan



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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:16 pm

kakariki wrote:
WAMcKinley wrote:
WHAAAT?? Of course that song has a religious undertone,---how else could you possibly interpret it??? Who is the singer speaking to, if not to her god?? Whose hand is she reaching out for if not god's?? She sure isn't imploring Obama to help her----or HRH, ElizabethII. Yes, of course we can choose to see it in other ways,---but I think we have to accept that the original intent of the writers of this song and the musical had god in mind when they had this wretched woman crying out in torment and desperation. I can enjoy the song for other reasons, as a non-believer. But I think it's wrong to deny the intent of the writers as to the original meaning of the song, simply because we, ourselves, might not be Christians or conventionally religious.

I agree. She is certainly singing to God. But I would say those that see it as her embracing her God for support are wrong. I get a more desperate attempt at trying to find assurance that there is a God to cling to, when reality has shown her that her faith has been unwarranted. There is a big difference in pleading for him to be there, if not she is lost, to saying God is keeping her from being lost because of her faith. She is pleading out of despair to something she has come to doubt.

The song certainly has a religious nature, but not in the sense of what is thought of as a religious song. She is questioning her faith not finding comfort in it.

Sort of how broken-heart songs are about love, but they certainly aren't love songs.

The only time people question religion and or God is when they are looking at their own mortality just around the corner.
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Clix Pix

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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:19 pm

WAM is correct.

Excerpted from the lyrics:

"What is it Lord that you want
And that I am not seeing?
What in my innocent prayers
Am I failing to say?
Never before have I questioned the truth of your being
Never once have I dared
Never until today

All of a tremble
I stand on the edge of confusion
Who is to save me
If into the darkness I fall?
Now that I need more than ever my Lord to be near me
Do you hear when I call?
Are you there after all?"



No "God," though, just "Lord." Also there is the reference to prayers...... Somehow I'd missed that first "Lord" each time I've listened to the song and the second one must have slipped gently under my radar as well. With lyrics like these, yes, I have to agree that yes, this song definitely does have a religious slant after all. I suppose someone who is not particularly religious or who doesn't believe in any one particular god could mentally substitute some other wording in those places. In that sense the song could be considered to have more universal appeal. It's a show tune, a song from a musical, not a hymn one would sing in church, nor could this be considered sacred music or spiritual/gospel music.

So, yep, even though Susan doesn't have a standard hymn on her new album she still sneaks in a bit of religion anyway......
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:44 pm

Lord could be any Higher Power that doesn't necessarily have to be God. Lord can also mean master like a King or whatever. I'm not religious obviously
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:53 pm

The Beatles wrote a song that has Lord in it and its not a religious song The Beatles didn't follow Christianity
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:14 pm

Lord can be a swear word too. Just sayin
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Clix Pix

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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:19 pm

Ah, yes, the Beatles' "My Sweet Lord," which, because they were -- or at least John Lennon was -- Buddhist, the song wasn't meant to be in the Christian context. In this instance the references to "Lord" were meant to be referring to the Hindu God or Lord Krishna,and apparently in live performances John Lennon encouraged the refrain to be "om Krishna" or "om Lord." There is also additional controversy about this particular song. It bears an uncanny resemblance to another song, "He's So Fine." I remember that the first time I heard Jane Olivor's version of "He's So Fine," I thought -- "huh? Haven't I heard this before?" As it turns out, indeed I had. There was a lawsuit which has now been settled.

Anyway, yes, "My Sweet Lord" is not about the same "Lord" that Christians worship.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:48 pm

Clix Pix wrote:
Ah, yes, the Beatles' "My Sweet Lord," which, because they were -- or at least John Lennon was -- Buddhist, the song wasn't meant to be in the Christian context. In this instance the references to "Lord" were meant to be referring to the Hindu God or Lord Krishna,and apparently in live performances John Lennon encouraged the refrain to be "om Krishna" or "om Lord." There is also additional controversy about this particular song. It bears an uncanny resemblance to another song, "He's So Fine." I remember that the first time I heard Jane Olivor's version of "He's So Fine," I thought -- "huh? Haven't I heard this before?" As it turns out, indeed I had. There was a lawsuit which has now been settled.

Anyway, yes, "My Sweet Lord" is not about the same "Lord" that Christians worship.

Some say some of the Christian type words in that song are actually swear words. When I listen to YHTBT I think of the Titanic and people reaching out to other people for help and families and lovers being separated and trying to find each other.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:26 am

Just a minor point: Clix, I believe the second reference to god in the song actually is the word,"god." "Now that I need more than ever my god to be near me,....." Listen to it again. And if you look up Susan's version of it on Google, they confirm it. As I said,---minor point. But it does strongly indicate that the character is speaking to god, as she knows god to be. In this sense, probably the Christian god.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:37 am

Thanks, WAM! I had just looked at the lyrics as posted on some lyrics site, and indeed Susan may have changed things....I guess I need to listen to Susan's version of this song again! Aw, gee, what a hardship, huh?!! LOL! Aside from that, oh, yes, no doubt that whatever god Susan would be addressing, it would be the God of her devout Roman Catholic faith, which is quite definitely removed from whatever the Buddhists believe and whatever their Lord Krishna represents to them. I got sidetracked commenting about the Beatles and "My Sweet Lord" but indeed that is quite different from Susan's singing "You Have to Be There" and her own particular beliefs. As we all know, she is a devout Roman Catholic (which is again also at a significant distance from many of the beliefs and the practices of "Born-Again Christians" and the like.....)

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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:51 am

Alrighty, just listened again to Susan's version and indeed you are quite right, WAM: she does sing "God" in the one place.

This does bring something else up which had vaguely annoyed me the first time or two that I heard it and now having listened to the song again, I wonder why at the end, the pause between "I reach for your..." and "hand." ??! Personally I think it would have sounded better had she done it all in one fell swoop.......
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:00 am

If Susan sang it to be a religious song then that explains why it didn't get a good reception on AGT
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:07 am

LMiller4Susan wrote:
If Susan sang it to be a religious song then that explains why it didn't get a good reception on AGT
________________________________________________________________________

I didn't realize that it hadn't gotten a good reception on AGT. Of course it could be that people were unfamiliar with that song or the musical it came from and were wondering why Susan was so angry, which is so out-of-character for her in much of what she's ever sung in public. I guess I have seen only positive reviews where folks were so glad to hear her using her powerful voice, for a change. Hearing it on the CD will likely change a lot of minds about the song for people who were originally unsure about it. The track from the CD is great!!
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Clix Pix

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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:29 am

Agree with WAM. I haven't seen a lot of negative responses to the performance or the song on AGT. Where were these comments?

Regardless of one's religious preferences, the song itself, as sung by Susan, is very, very powerfully done. I just listened to it again with headphones on this time, which is better for me in terms of getting full stereo sound and also being able to understand lyrics. It's an amazing song and Susan sings it very, very passionately and powerfully. I can't imagine that anyone would disagree with that.

Earlier tonight I was also listening to Bob Seger.....one of his songs reminds of Susan in a way, that at times she is touching "the Fire Inside" when she sings. I wish that we could see a lot more of that..... Methinks that Susan has a LOT of "Fire Inside" to let loose.....



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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:32 am

"The fire inside." That's a good expression of that concept!
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:11 am

It's one of my favorite Bob Seger songs....and as I was listening to it tonight, I saw the potential parallels with Susan -- not the song itself or the lyrics of it, but rather that underlying concept. Yes, I daresay that Susan has some seriously burning fire inside......
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:48 am

Clix Pix wrote:
I agree with you, Tonnie, and from the first time I heard the song, when we only had the videos of the Swedish singer and the other one (neither name can I recall right now), even at that point I realized that all they'd have to do would be to clip out the first nine lines of the song to make it more universally appealing (remove the references to the loss of a child, etc., as while that is relevant to the musical from which the song originates, it is not necessary to sing those lines outside of that particular context). As it is sung by Susan it becomes more universal in meaning.

Unfortunately it seems that too many listeners have grasped this song to their bosoms, focusing only on their particular interpretation, which in their eyes makes it a religious song. It's not, it doesn't have to be at all related to G*d or to anyone's particular religion, the sentiments expressed therein can be indeed far more universally-applied than that.

Yes, regardless of anyone's interpretation of this song, Susan sings it powerfully and with passion and conviction.

This song can be interpreted any way the listener likes it to be. That is why it can be universally accepted. Anybody, of any religion, can listen to this song and love it in whatever way they wish. And it is a beautiful song.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:17 am



Vaguely inspired by Susan's song, I feel like posting this short poem by Salvatore Quasimodo (1901-1968), one of the most essential ones I know referring to la condition humaine...


And suddenly it’s evening

Everyone’s stands alone on the earth’s core
pierced by a ray of sunlight:
and suddenly it’s evening



For the lovers of the original sound:

Ed è subito sera

Ognuno sta solo sul cuor della terra
trafitto da un raggio di sole:
ed è subito sera


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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:38 pm

LMiller4Susan wrote:
Clix Pix wrote:
Ah, yes, the Beatles' "My Sweet Lord," which, because they were -- or at least John Lennon was -- Buddhist, the song wasn't meant to be in the Christian context. In this instance the references to "Lord" were meant to be referring to the Hindu God or Lord Krishna,and apparently in live performances John Lennon encouraged the refrain to be "om Krishna" or "om Lord." There is also additional controversy about this particular song. It bears an uncanny resemblance to another song, "He's So Fine." I remember that the first time I heard Jane Olivor's version of "He's So Fine," I thought -- "huh? Haven't I heard this before?" As it turns out, indeed I had. There was a lawsuit which has now been settled.

Anyway, yes, "My Sweet Lord" is not about the same "Lord" that Christians worship.

Some say some of the Christian type words in that song are actually swear words. When I listen to YHTBT I think of the Titanic and people reaching out to other people for help and families and lovers being separated and trying to find each other.


I agree with this statement. I do not get a religious feeling from YHTBT at all and I am a non church going Christian. To me it is about us humans dealing with the suffering in life that we have to deal with at times.
I think young people might relate to it as they like drama and struggle and search for help.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:16 am

I think Susan approaches her song choices from an intensely personal perspective, but part of her gift as an artist is rendering her music in such a way that people freely absorb it according to their own viewpoints and needs.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:20 am


Well said pipes. This highlights to me why I don't focus on the lyrics when Susan sings. Nor am I drawn to analyse her interpretations. Her music makes me feel good - even when it makes me cry. Simple as that.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:34 am

I agree with you Pipechanter and Sue2 - it's the feeling that responds in me and it comes from a deep place.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:47 am

Clix Pix wrote:
Ah, yes, the Beatles' "My Sweet Lord," which, because they were -- or at least John Lennon was -- Buddhist, the song wasn't meant to be in the Christian context. In this instance the references to "Lord" were meant to be referring to the Hindu God or Lord Krishna,and apparently in live performances John Lennon encouraged the refrain to be "om Krishna" or "om Lord." There is also additional controversy about this particular song. It bears an uncanny resemblance to another song, "He's So Fine." I remember that the first time I heard Jane Olivor's version of "He's So Fine," I thought -- "huh? Haven't I heard this before?" As it turns out, indeed I had. There was a lawsuit which has now been settled.

Anyway, yes, "My Sweet Lord" is not about the same "Lord" that Christians worship.

The very first single I ever bought. Circa 1971, age 11 - ?? Great tune!



A rip-off of He's So Fine - ??? Really? Never made that connection before . . .

But The Chiffons recorded the definitive version (IMO):





I guess this was actually released in 1970. Damn, I had good taste for a 10-year-old kid!

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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:14 am

I may be hearing something that''s not there, but I think she pauses before "hand" because the orchestra shifts into a different key on that final note.
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:17 am

dyebat wrote:
I may be hearing something that''s not there, but I think she pauses before "hand" because the orchestra shifts into a different key on that final note.

Nah, just someone's awkward and elementary idea of dramatic effect lol!
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PostSubject: Re: I reach for your hand...   Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:24 pm

tonnie_rocca wrote:


IMHO, Susan's song has nothing to do with christianity or believers, how much some people want to be convinced of that...

It has instead ALL to do with the human condition, we are alone and lost here downunder, and so much longing not to be that.

So for me it's an universal human song.

And I appreciate it for that, apart from the singing, which is superb and beyond (my) words ... Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven

I couldn't agree more. Wow -- thank you for saying so. it really puts it into perspective. Not all songs sung by Susan has to be about her mom, her dad, or religious in matter.

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