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bernicer

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PostSubject: Things of the past   Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:53 pm

Fans who joined Susan forums after 2010 have no idea what happened before you joined.

I won't go into details here, because only us "elders" have the memory of what happened.
I will say a lot of elders would not/could not return because they have been banned or resigned.
Some of the rest of us elders have moved on or are still trying to make it work, because one forum was our home site as well.
Issues, some of which were never repaired, continue to linger.
I to have memories, some good, and some really heart breaking.


Last edited by bernicer on Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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whisper

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:13 pm

bernicer wrote:
Fans who joined Susan forums after 2010 have no idea what happened before you joined.

I won't go into details here, because only us "elders" have the memory of what happened.
I will say a lot of elders would not/could not return because they have been banned or resigned.
Some of the rest of us elders have moved on or are still trying to make it work, because one was our home site as well.
Issues, some of which were never repaired, continue to linger.
I to have memories, some good, and some really heart breaking.

Very good post Bern and heart felt. I too am one from 2009 and have witnessed much. Some was good and some unbelievably unfair. I really want to trust because some good people  are also on more than one fan site. Yes  Bern we had some good times.
Much of the unfair was erased but record has ben kept in other places. As one person said nothing is ever erased on the Internet.
I agree some issues were never repaired and do seem to linger.

PS time to move forward see where it leads.... I love you 
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dyebat

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:38 pm

A bit of prehistorical perspective:

The website www.susanboyle.com and its forum forum.susan-boyle.com, now often called "SBFII" were started by Paul Wood,  an entrepreneur who wanted to make money from providing or "curating" information about Susan Boyle. "Curation" might be considered a technique of getting other people to provide free content on a hot topic for your website--all you do, as curator, is organize it, and throw out what you don't want, including contributors like DJG, whose amusing graphics of Susan flying her spaceship were considered by Paul to be off-topic. His website was very successful, attracting thousands of people who wanted information and videos about Susan, but managing the forum was time- and energy-consuming, so he decided to sell the site.

Because of concern that someone might buy the site and shut down the forum, I jokingly suggested we fans buy the site, and put down a $2 bid.  Many fans thought this was a good idea, and as the bids went higher, I eventually received over $21,000 in pledges. My vision was to create a non-profit that would be run by fans  of Susan Boyle for fans of Susan Boyle.  The admins and moderators of that time had a different vision. They wanted to create a PR vehicle for Susan which they, as a private corporation, would control. Because I had the support of so many forum members they proposed a joint purchase of which they would provide half the funds and my supporters would provide the other half, and I would act as the temporary buyer until a corporate structure was created to run the site. At that time I would sell the site for $1, and the new corporation would assume the repayment to all donors.

The sale went pretty much as planned and I purchased the site for $8,000--I think. My $8,000 bid was accepted, but I did wonder if parties unknown gave Paul some additional money.  I tracked and published on the site bank records of all the financial transactions on our side, but I never received any objective confirmation of the other funds involved--just an email from Paul saying he was paid, and other emails from the staff stating what they and their backers had contributed.  If you are interested, there is a book published in 2011 called "Curation Nation" which includes Paul and susan-boyle.com as examples of curation as a money-making enterprise.  It includes the sale, but does not mention the amount.

There is, of course, far more history about what happened next, but this is enough for one post!
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whisper

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:03 am

Ooooohhhh, Dyebat thank you. You are the keeper of truth what happened and what append next.
I have good memories of the bus you drove.  
You did a good job maybe to good and because other entities had other designs what happened next was despicable.
That is the story I hope you tell next because that is when a dark episode of the so loved fan site began.... Sad


Last edited by whisper on Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Clix Pix

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:36 am

About Curation Nation, which is available on Amazon:

About the Author
Steven Rosenbaum is an entrepreneur, filmmaker, and digital curator. He created MTV’s groundbreaking user-generated video show MTV Unfiltered and directed the award-winning 9/11 documentary 7 Days in September. Rosenbaum is the CEO of Magnify.net, the largest real-time video aggregation and curation engine on the Internet. He lives in New York City.


Magnify.net is the site which first welcomed Paul Wood and his fledgling Susan Boyle site.
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pancake

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:06 am

I joined SBFII just a week or so before "Hell Night" and had no idea who anybody was or what was happening. It took me a while to find out from first one and then another. I was trying to find out on this forum what had happened there and was accused by someone here of trying to start trouble with my questions which he said I already knew the answers to, which I did not. I was treated with suspicion when I first joined here because I came from there. It all matters not to me personally because I enjoy and am a member of both forums and intend to remain that way. I have had posts removed, been upbraided by a few but I have a thick skin and I just really don't care. I have told the mods there that they have my permission to delete anything I say if they want to. A lot of the drama SBFII is entertaining to me, so I really don't plan to get so worked up that I get myself banned. What's the point? There are good people on both forums, but the forums are vastly different. This forum is not for everybody, nor is SBFII for everybody. Pick one...or both and enjoy.
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Suzanah

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:35 pm

Dyebat, your comment above finally clears things up for me, Wanting to create a PR vehicle makes sense of July 2010. I really had no idea WHY those people were doing what they were doing. Unbelievable.
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whisper

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:40 pm

Suzanah wrote:
Dyebat, your comment above finally clears things up for me, Wanting to create a PR vehicle makes sense of July 2010. I really had no idea WHY those people were doing what they were doing. Unbelievable.

But they had a PR vehicle insofar that there was an official Susan Boyle forum at the time. SBFII had nothing to do with the official Susan Boyle site and supposed to be independent and supposed to be for the fans. I hope Dyebat fills in the next missing link.
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Suzanah

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:07 pm

I guess they wanted total control, obviously. I didn't understand, but this PR scheme does shed some light. All in the past now. They just created such turmoil a tthe time.
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fudgemeister

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:12 pm

whisper wrote:
Suzanah wrote:
Dyebat, your comment above finally clears things up for me, Wanting to create a PR vehicle makes sense of July 2010. I really had no idea WHY those people were doing what they were doing. Unbelievable.

But they had a PR vehicle insofar that there was an official Susan Boyle forum at the time. SBFII  had nothing to do with the official Susan Boyle site and supposed to be independent and supposed to be for the fans. I hope Dyebat fills in the next missing link.
But at the time Paul's forum was already set up with LOTS of traffic going through it. It had the very top spot on the google search page. That alone was worth gold to the PR team.
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Suzanah

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:32 pm

The events in 2010 were so strange. At the time I had no idea what was going on.

It is not clear to me at this time truly, but I do not admire any sort of deceit.

It is not very comfortable to post at SBFII. Best to keep comments very low key and not engage. It is supposed to be fun!!


Last edited by Suzanah on Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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knudt

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:52 pm

I have researched the activities of July 2010 at SBFII.  I was given a copy of the database by lchris and spent many hours trying to determine what actually happened.  I know many things about what happened.  I know that new and fake admin positions were created by administrators in what I believe was an attempt to make it look as if an outside group was taking over the forum.  I know that no one ever planned or attempted such a takeover.

I know that at least one troll was heavily involved in passing false and defamatory information about many members of Susan Boyle fansites.  I know that many of the administrators, moderators and some ordinary members believed the false information and acted on it.  I know that moderators and members were allowed, and actually encouraged, to make posts and even whole threads based on that false information.  I know that people who were innocent of the charges were publicly accused on the forum with the blessings of the administrators and moderators.  

I know that the administrators did not try to determine the truth, but in fact tried to cover it up.  I know that that the board of SBFII was not interested in determining what actually happened and ignored information available to them.  

I know that the supposed "apologies" given were inadequate, incomplete and insulting to those falsely accused.  I know that the administrators, moderators and ordinary members who broke many rules about respect for other members never faced any consequences for their false and malicious posts about innocent people.  

What I still do not know is all of the motivations for the above actions.  I don't believe that JudyO or DaniL did what they did because they wanted to facilitate control by Susan's PR team.  But I believe they may have been encouraged and manipulated by those who did.  

I do not know the underlying motivations for Tink or Kalua, but I do not believe they had the best interests of the ordinary members in mind.


Last edited by knudt on Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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WAMcKinley

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:38 pm

Thank you, knudt.   I appreciate your honesty and the information given. I suppose we'll never know why some people did what they did back then. A number of innocent people were maligned and banned from that site in the process, however. That much I do know.
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whisper

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:12 pm

WAMcKinley wrote:
Thank you, knudt.   I appreciate your honesty and the information given.   I suppose we'll never know why some people did what they did back then.   A number of innocent people were maligned and banned from that site in the process, however.   That much I do know.

I second that.
I also know many good people were banned for someone benefit including you and Knudt.
You the person who was a mod and never have done anything but you were not in the in group I believe. You paid a high price for integrity.
You are loved...hug
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monkey

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:45 pm

Thanks for the history Dyebat and Knudt. I lived through it, but it was still very convoluted and confusing at the time.
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dyebat

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:41 pm

The source of the data which Knudt investigated were the records obtained from the company hosting the susan-boyle website, which could not be altered like screen caps can. There are multiple copies of that data, prepared by IT professionals using standards required for court evidence, and stored in secure facilities. Knudt's analysis of it is impeccable.

Like knudt, I can only guess at motivation of the events of July, 2010. At the time, Susan was much more of a hot property, and as Fudgemeister has noted, the susan-boyle website was of far more importance than it is now. Then, as now, the concept of "street teams" was in effect. Street teams are aggregates of fans who can be mobilized to provide publicity for an entertainer at little or no cost to the entertainer or his/her management. Some of the things they can do are to promote performances or records online or among their friends.They can be called on to show up en masse for publicity shots, interviews or performances. They can defend or vote for their star online or in the press. They can be rewarded with inexpensive items (such as t-shirts or the red scarves distributed at Susan's second Rock Plaza performance) or by closer access to the star, as in M & G's or other personal contact. They are common, cost-effective and perfectly legitimate. I see SBFII members functioning well as a street team. As do members of other Susan Boyle fansites.

But alas, there is the issue of control, and of maintaining the brand. Although the street team function could be continued whether the site was controlled by members or staff, open discussion among members could not be guaranteed to promote the brand. A non-profit controlled by members was such an unknown quantity as to constitute a threat. I believe that someone decided the non-profit and its promoters must be discredited, and the 2010 debacle resulted. I also believe that the majority of members, including some of the staff, were manipulated and misled into their attacks, whether by the troll or others. One does not ask a group of people if they want a dictatorship or a democracy; one paints the democrats as terrorists, fools, or deceptive seekers after power.

I can count on one hand the number of people I consider to be guilty not only of attacking me and others personally with deliberate slander, but of betraying the broader membership of the Susan Boyle community. I consider the current castrated version of SBFII more to be pitied than censured (or censored). I would like to see Susan Boyle fans across the multiple fan sites, each with their different flavor, respect one another. To the extent that we can, we will negate the damage that was done by a few creatures who have forced their self-serving agenda down the throats of genuine fans with no concern for the hurt and distrust they have caused others.

There's no way we can regain our innocence, but I do think we can move towards understanding and accepting one another.
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fudgemeister

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:18 am

All I know is that I was a member from June 2009. I loved the place if only because it brought the original rabid fans together in one place. One day I posted a thread that Susan should branch out musically, only because it looked like she was heading in a religious direction with her music. It also looked as if many members of that site wanted her to go in that direction. The next thing I knew was that mods were sending me constant PMs to police my thread better (yes-believe it or not, they left control of the thread in the hands of the opening poster Rolling Eyes ). After that I joined the public enemies list apparently (most likely when I joined here). I would open threads questioning their unfairness and they would delete the threads at warp speed.

Needless to say they took over the policing of all threads, probably thanks to me laughfloor . And boy, do they ever police!
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Wabbit

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:13 am

Actually things started in April 2009 under Paul's blog before the current forum ever opened. It just grew and grew until it was clear the administration was not the best one that they could have had.  The treatment of members was totally absurd and humiliating for no apparent reason.  Grown adults were treated like two year old children with a stick in the hand by the forum administration. Freedom of expression was denied  over and over again. There is a lesson to be learned from that for a successful forum.  Maybe someone needs to  think about that.
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kivita

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:18 pm

Dyebat, you might be the most eloquent writer I have ever met. And you do it so clearly that I can even understand what the issues were back then. Thank you.
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Robert the Bruce

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:39 pm

Yes, it's been helpful.
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terijay

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:50 pm

Wabbit wrote:
Actually things started in April 2009 under Paul's blog before the current forum ever opened. It just grew and grew until it was clear the administration was not the best one that they could have had.  The treatment of members was totally absurd and humiliating for no apparent reason.  Grown adults were treated like two year old children with a stick in the hand by the forum administration. Freedom of expression was denied  over and over again. There is a lesson to be learned from that for a successful forum.  Maybe someone needs to  think about that.

I never post on the guest forum threads here.  I prefer the threads inside, which are discussions about Miss Boyle,  and other items of interest to all, including the Weather in various parts of the country, and sometimes politics, which is interesting.   No one is deleted for their political opinions, which is somewhat cool, in that political thread.

The reason I am posting here right now, is that I recently told a moderator of SBFII that I was banned from there for a week,  and she said,  "no you were never banned" (  but she is one who was not really around back then)  and no,  that is not Moll Bobbers.  Moll is the BEST moderator SBFII has EVER had, IMHO- smart, fair and has a sense of humour.Anyway, I was banned.  If anyone cares to look,  the date I joined this forum was in October of 2009-- i was upset and needed a place to talk about Miss Boyle!

As it turned out back then, I  was banned for only  a week ( but  I had no idea AT THAT TIME) if it would be permanent.  I was not given the three warnings or anything, in PM's.  In fact,  I was banned OVERNIGHT, when I was not even on SBFII, to even be able  to delete the posts that so offended the head mod at the time, which was Danileo (RIP.)I had posted things about some article that a member of her family sold to the tabs, portraying Susan as pretty much a sad person and kind of an imbecile -- etc.  I pointed out that I thought the person was a "user" and was after her money and did not support her,  IMHO>
Well, that did NOT go over well at all.
So, the next day, I went to the forum and saw the VBulletin message that "You are not able to access this site"
I emailed one of the moderators of the time,  as I could not even PM anyone there to ask what the HELL happened to me???
She said I was banned for my remarks about a family member...... Oddly enough, time has proved that it appears I was correct about the family member. Sorry to have been right!  (LOL)

So,  I was upset.  That forum was the only active place at the time, except this one, that had been started by DJG, who was banned for posting a cartoon in a place Doc Robbie ( he was the HEAD ADMIN under Paul Wood)  did not like.  DJG also was banned for nothing much.
It was not a vile cartoon. Though I do not actually recall what it was, but i know it was said to be "off topic" and so he was banned.

I did get re-instated, a little later at SBFII.  I still kept my membership here, and also joined Amazing, CL's forum and another small forum of a group of women fans, that is now defunct.
I see nothing wrong with being on more than one forum
I do know that good people got really slammed in 2010, around the time of the sale of SBFII, including Citroenlady, Knudt, LChris, Dyebat, and others who were well respected members of SBFII

I say this with NO malice or interest in slamming the present day people there.  I will say it again-- i have no malice or interest in slamming the present day mods/admin there.
BUT, I am only posting this,  to verify that there were some odd times back in late 2009-the summer of 2010.  
 
I agree with Dyebat. I think bygones should be bygones, as ALL forums love SUSAN and she is who we are even here, there and everywhere, five years later, to talk about, praise, commiserate with,  cheer on and hopefully all band together in the great TOUR this SPRING in the UK

Peace and Love hug  I love you  I love you  I love you 
Teri[/b]
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kivita

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:11 pm

Nice post, Teri!  hug 
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terijay

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PostSubject: Re: Things of the past   Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:13 pm

kivita wrote:
Nice post, Teri!   hug 

back 'atcha and back atcha to ALL SusaFAns no matter who-- that have been on this ride almost FIVE years now!!
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