Positive Threads, Negative Threads!

We allow positive threads here and negative threads. We allow positive posts and negative posts. That is the advantage of freedom of speech. We have an administrator here, DJG, who hardly ever moderates. He treats us like adults, not children. What the heck is wrong with saying that you do not like Christmas songs? On a certain forum it is sacrilegious! Forums are supposed to be a discussion of thoughts and ideas. What a boring world we would have if all agreed.

Susan is an adult and an artist. I am certain she would want to hear fans' true feelings about her CDs. She is tough. We certainly know that. Please, do not treat her like a child who needs protection.

ETA--Heartfelt thanks to DJG!!!     

If anyone has any remarks simmering inside that you would like to share, negative or positive, you may do so on this forum.

Well, folks are free to vote in our ongoing poll:

https://susahumor.forumotion.com/t7931-cd5-are-you-happy

They may not be allowed to say what they feel over there, but they can express an opinion here!

Admin wrote:

Well, folks are free to vote in our ongoing poll:

https://susahumor.forumotion.com/t7931-cd5-are-you-happy

They may not be allowed to say what they feel over there, but they can express an opinion here!

By alienating members each and every time .... they stifle them or they sanitize some thread or jump all over someone who has innocently attempted to express an opinion which isn't following the expected "company line." That is not how a discussion forum works.

Thanks Clix!

You're welcome!  Beat me to it here, as I was busy writing something on another GF thread......   A "discussion forum" should be just that, shouldn't it?  People allowed to share their thoughts, offer opinions, and allowed to provide feedback to others who are doing the same?  Sure, there are going to be differences of opinion and sometimes frank disagreement ardently expressed....but that's all part of the concept of "discussion forum."

Stifling that sharing of thoughts and opinions, stifling feedback, removing signs of disagreement and dissension really means that a site is no longer a "discussion forum" if ever it was meant to be one in the first place. Outcome of this usually means that members drift away and find other places where they CAN discuss things without being censored and censured. That's when the alienation has set in.

The thing is, I like and admire Susan Boyle and enjoy her singing tremendously. Unless you are a troll, we all want the best for Susan, in every way. Is there a thousand and one different thoughts about what the 'best' is, of course. Hence, why there is discussion.  

fudgemeister wrote:

We allow positive threads here and negative threads. We allow positive posts and negative posts. That is the advantage of freedom of speech. We have an administrator here, DJG, who hardly ever moderates. He treats us like adults, not children. What the heck is wrong with saying that you do not like Christmas songs? On a certain forum it is sacrilegious! Forums are supposed to be a discussion of thoughts and ideas. What a boring world we would have if all agreed.

Susan is an adult and an artist. I am certain she would want to hear fans' true feelings about her CDs. She is tough. We certainly know that. Please, do not treat her like a child who needs protection.

ETA--Heartfelt thanks to DJG!!!     

All that is true, Fudge and perfectly fine before the fact. But the CD is DONE now and going on sale next month. Susan might want to hear her fans true feelings for #6. But all this negative stuff about #5, has no effect on the finished product. It's just venting and its only result will be to make Susan feel bad if, God forbid, she should read any of it. And particularly unfortunate now, since she has to go out and promote HFC for the next 3 months.

trennie wrote:

fudgemeister wrote:

We allow positive threads here and negative threads. We allow positive posts and negative posts. That is the advantage of freedom of speech. We have an administrator here, DJG, who hardly ever moderates. He treats us like adults, not children. What the heck is wrong with saying that you do not like Christmas songs? On a certain forum it is sacrilegious! Forums are supposed to be a discussion of thoughts and ideas. What a boring world we would have if all agreed.

Susan is an adult and an artist. I am certain she would want to hear fans' true feelings about her CDs. She is tough. We certainly know that. Please, do not treat her like a child who needs protection.

ETA--Heartfelt thanks to DJG!!!     

All that is true, Fudge and perfectly fine before the fact.  But the CD is DONE now and going on sale next month.  Susan might want to hear her fans true feelings for #6.  But all this negative stuff about #5, has no effect on the finished product.  It's just venting and its only result will be to make Susan  feel bad if, God forbid, she should read any of it.  And particularly unfortunate now, since she has to go out and promote HFC for the next 3 months.

I believe Sony did do some polling of what fans want. I think jazz/blues finished first or second. I think religious or Christmas was on the list but finished low. I am fuzzy on this, perhaps someone here can remember the exact facts. If I am right about this, then the fans were ignored anyway.

Pretty evident that this album was churned out for commercial purposes. It - based on the theme and track listing - doesn't reflect Susan's artistic capacity.

I highly doubt that the expressed disappointment of fans on a few sites is going to negatively affect Susan's ability to promote this album, She's not stoopid, and has to have bought into the idea of this album being targeted as a commercial success.

Hopefully, she has her sights set on something that demonstrates her artistry in the not-too-distant future.

pipechanter wrote:

Pretty evident that this album was churned out for commercial purposes.  It - based on the theme and track listing - doesn't reflect Susan's artistic capacity.

I highly doubt that the expressed disappointment of fans on a few sites is going to negatively affect Susan's ability to promote this album,  She's not stoopid, and has to have bought into the idea of this album being targeted as a commercial success.  

Hopefully, she has her sights set on something that demonstrates her artistry in the not-too-distant future.

I wonder if "artist" is in Susan's lexicon, as far as her career is concerned. As she said in another context, "don't get ideas above your station". I think she still hopes to become a professional singer. I don't believe she's yet fully aware of her capabilities. I hope Andrew Pantone, her voice coach/teacher and tour Musical Director can help her push her boundaries. He's certainly restored her voice, along with her own hard work.

BTW, "PA", the Brit sound engineer, who has been very helpful to both Susan's and JE's fandoms, said he had gotten hold of a full recording of Susan's concert (from the recent tour) and it had been a "revelation" to him. Which, since he mainly works with classical singers, sounds good to me.

trennie wrote:

pipechanter wrote:

Pretty evident that this album was churned out for commercial purposes.  It - based on the theme and track listing - doesn't reflect Susan's artistic capacity.

I highly doubt that the expressed disappointment of fans on a few sites is going to negatively affect Susan's ability to promote this album,  She's not stoopid, and has to have bought into the idea of this album being targeted as a commercial success.  

Hopefully, she has her sights set on something that demonstrates her artistry in the not-too-distant future.

I wonder if "artist" is in Susan's lexicon, as far as her career is concerned.  As she said in another context, "don't get ideas above your station".  I think she still hopes to become a professional singer.  I don't believe she's yet fully  aware of her capabilities.  I hope Andrew Pantone, her voice coach/teacher and tour Musical Director can help her push her boundaries.  He's certainly restored her voice, along with her own hard work.

BTW, "PA", the Brit sound engineer, who has been very helpful to both Susan's and JE's fandoms, said he had gotten hold of a full recording of Susan's concert (from the recent tour) and it had been a "revelation" to him.  Which, since he mainly works with classical singers, sounds good to me.

HEY!!! I have an idea!     Why didn't they just get the best songs from the Scottish concerts, and make a DVD out of it. That way, I could have had the same revelation. Who do I ask at Sony about it?     

"Restoring her voice" cannot have been a huge challenge, as long as Susan's put in the necessary work.

When someone is working in the capacity of her current vocal coach, it's probably all about technical and interpretive issues. Whether this guy is clued in to the special qualities that constitute "The Voice" is still a matter of conjecture. He is, after all, apparently being paid to round her up for - among other things - putting out an album where $$$ is the emphasis, not Susan's inherent capability.

In the best of all worlds, he recognizes her special qualities and coaches her in the nuts and bolts, but encourages her as an artist.

fudgemeister wrote:

trennie wrote:

pipechanter wrote:

Pretty evident that this album was churned out for commercial purposes.  It - based on the theme and track listing - doesn't reflect Susan's artistic capacity.

I highly doubt that the expressed disappointment of fans on a few sites is going to negatively affect Susan's ability to promote this album,  She's not stoopid, and has to have bought into the idea of this album being targeted as a commercial success.  

Hopefully, she has her sights set on something that demonstrates her artistry in the not-too-distant future.

I wonder if "artist" is in Susan's lexicon, as far as her career is concerned.  As she said in another context, "don't get ideas above your station".  I think she still hopes to become a professional singer.  I don't believe she's yet fully  aware of her capabilities.  I hope Andrew Pantone, her voice coach/teacher and tour Musical Director can help her push her boundaries.  He's certainly restored her voice, along with her own hard work.

BTW, "PA", the Brit sound engineer, who has been very helpful to both Susan's and JE's fandoms, said he had gotten hold of a full recording of Susan's concert (from the recent tour) and it had been a "revelation" to him.  Which, since he mainly works with classical singers, sounds good to me.

HEY!!! I have an idea!     Why didn't they just get the best songs from the Scottish concerts, and make a DVD out of it. That way, I could have had the same revelation. Who do I ask at Sony about it?     

I think you're going to Fudge, it will be in the new documentary. I hope they show the whole thing fom beginning to end and don't get clever with it.

pipechanter wrote:

"Restoring her voice" cannot have been a huge challenge, as long as Susan's put in the necessary work.

When someone is working in the capacity of her current vocal coach, it's probably all about technical and interpretive issues.  Whether this guy is clued in to the special qualities that constitute "The Voice" is still a matter of conjecture.  He is, after all, apparently being paid to round her up  for - among other things - putting out an album where $$$ is the emphasis, not Susan's inherent capability.

In the best of all worlds, he recognizes her special qualities and coaches her in the nuts and bolts, but encourages her as an artist.  

I hope so, PC. I wish she could also employ Fred O'Neil. I don't know what his level of skill or knowledge is as a voice teacher, but he certainly understands her as a woman.

I doubt we will get more than snippets in this documentary. Besides, I would rather just have a DVD.

My guess is that the documentary will show material leading up to the concert series, including maybe one or two early planning sessions, and then of course the rehearsals and then maybe complete versions of one or two of the songs she sang, or maybe even three if we're lucky, along with clips of some of the other songs. Included, too, will be audience reactions, fan commentary and the like. They'll make a big deal of people coming from other countries, too, for this. I really don't think that the documentary will give us all of the complete songs in the concert series. All we can hope for is that if they do show us complete performances of any songs that they are some of the ones new to us rather than what I personally now consider the old chestnuts ("IDAD," "WIWBTB")....... Showing "River Deep, Mountain High" in its entirety along with showing the audience rocking right along with Susan and her support singers, would be fantastic and would show the world that she is capable for more than just mournful, slow ballads or religious hymns. We can dream, can't we?

trennie wrote:

pipechanter wrote:

"Restoring her voice" cannot have been a huge challenge, as long as Susan's put in the necessary work.

When someone is working in the capacity of her current vocal coach, it's probably all about technical and interpretive issues.  Whether this guy is clued in to the special qualities that constitute "The Voice" is still a matter of conjecture.  He is, after all, apparently being paid to round her up  for - among other things - putting out an album where $$$ is the emphasis, not Susan's inherent capability.

In the best of all worlds, he recognizes her special qualities and coaches her in the nuts and bolts, but encourages her as an artist.  

I hope so, PC.  I wish she could also employ Fred O'Neil.  I don't know what his level of skill or knowledge is as a voice teacher, but he certainly understands her as a woman.

This current guy is pretty young, and considering his pupil, his biggest challenge is probably motivating her. Susan has the goods in spades, and I just hope this young man realizes what a gift he's been handed. The jury's still out, as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure that if Susan was more self-aware and self-confident, she'd realize that she could teach him a thing or two!

Clix Pix wrote:

Showing "River Deep, Mountain High" in its entirety along with showing the audience rocking right along with Susan and her support singers, would be fantastic and would show the world that she is capable for more than just mournful, slow ballads or religious hymns.

Zimmerframes a'rockin' might not be the best visual to expand her audience.   

LOL!!!!!! Well, they wouldn't need their zimmerframe for that, they could just clutch on to the seat back in front of them..... but you DO make a good point and that is, yeah, if the documentary shows a bunch of grey-hairs and old-age-pensioners in the audience, how good will that be for promoting Susan to a wider population?

For myself, I just can't wait to see the new Christmas Candle quilt.---------  

We should be hearing some definite news about that film pretty soon, especially its opening date in the US.  Maybe they'll have a big premiere here as well as one in London.  Gee, do you suppose they might do a major deal in San Antonio, Texas?  Y'know, that's where the author of the book lives and preaches.  Gee, wouldn't that be something?  Somehow that makes more sense to me to have a premiere in Texas rather than in NYC/LA/Vegas or some other big city here in the US.

Maybe some of the fans from Texas could all get together and attend the Premiere and the big doings, especially if Susan is going to be there! Yeee-haw!!!!

It would be nice to see Susan visiting a part of the US other than NYC, LA, and Las Vegas, for a change.   That gives a skewed view of America as there's so much more to us than big cities and bright lights.

Hi, Sunday night guests! Welcome!!------------  

Dallas, Texas is much more centrally located than Chicago. Hotels, transportation, etc. are all much cheaper than Chicago. NY and LA are much more expensive and inaccessible than any of the big 3. Vegas is better than LA or NY, but still too far west for many to travel. I vote for Texas, like it or not.

As I said earlier it makes perfect sense to have the US film premiere in the home town (San Antonio) of the author of the book upon which the film is based -- Max Lucado.   It has nothing to do with how convenient or inconvenient it might be for travelers -- those associated with the film and some of the actors will travel wherever it is necessary.   Of course there will also be a major film premiere in England, too, probably London, and that also makes sense since the film is based in the UK and has a cast from the UK.

And Dallas is brutally hot.

It's not going to be brutally hot, even in Texas, in late November or early December! However, I imagine that the weather is rather pleasant that time of year there in San Antonio......certainly warmer than NYC or London!

Robert the Bruce wrote:

And Dallas is brutally hot.

Yes. Much too hot for my taste. In summer 2011, temperatures in July and August reached 110-112 F almost every day. Nothing like getting in your car to go to work at 4 in the afternoon, and your digital thermometer reads 121 F.

The first time the temperature went below 100 F, in September, I almost had to put on a coat.

Chocolate Eyes wrote:

Robert the Bruce wrote:

And Dallas is brutally hot.

Yes. Much too hot for my taste. In summer 2011, temperatures in July and August reached 110-112 F almost every day. Nothing like getting in your car to go to work at 4 in the afternoon, and your digital thermometer reads 121 F.

The first time the temperature went below 100 F, in September, I almost had to put on a coat.

________________________________________________________

Oy! Much too hot for me. We had a week of high 90s this summer----and I thought I'd die!

I remember my first trip to Houston. June. Nearly 100 degrees and also 100 percent humidity.

No exaggeration. So, I got in an un-air-conditioned car and drove to Pasadena to see the battleship TEXAS. A big, dark blue, steel oven in a swamp.

Robert the Bruce wrote:

I remember my first trip to Houston.  June.  Nearly 100 degrees and also 100 percent humidity.

No exaggeration.  So, I got in an un-air-conditioned car and drove to Pasadena to see the battleship TEXAS.  A big, dark blue, steel oven in a swamp.

_______________________________________________________________

Blame it on heatstroke! You were brain-damaged.-----  

trennie wrote:

pipechanter wrote:

Pretty evident that this album was churned out for commercial purposes.  It - based on the theme and track listing - doesn't reflect Susan's artistic capacity.

I highly doubt that the expressed disappointment of fans on a few sites is going to negatively affect Susan's ability to promote this album,  She's not stoopid, and has to have bought into the idea of this album being targeted as a commercial success.  

Hopefully, she has her sights set on something that demonstrates her artistry in the not-too-distant future.

I wonder if "artist" is in Susan's lexicon, as far as her career is concerned.  As she said in another context, "don't get ideas above your station".  I think she still hopes to become a professional singer.  I don't believe she's yet fully  aware of her capabilities.  I hope Andrew Pantone, her voice coach/teacher and tour Musical Director can help her push her boundaries.  He's certainly restored her voice, along with her own hard work.

BTW, "PA", the Brit sound engineer, who has been very helpful to both Susan's and JE's fandoms, said he had gotten hold of a full recording of Susan's concert (from the recent tour) and it had been a "revelation" to him.  Which, since he mainly works with classical singers, sounds good to me.

That's fine for this PA person to say.  We will not hear her artistry or talent if Susan continues on the way she is, giving us a cheesy cd just for commercial purposes.  I will never understand why some people think that expressing an opinion that you don't want this offering is an insult to Susan.  Her team has watched her cds dwindle from millions to about 400,000.  That should tell them something, but it doesn't seem to have.  I truly believe that if Susan was putting out the cds she is capable of people would be buying them.  Do I have the right to express my opinion about cd No. 5?  I certainly think I do.  There is no better way to let her team know that we expect more of cd No. 6.  I know that we can react by not buying the cd, but I don't think that is enough.  The slide in sales has not seemed to smarten up her team thus far, so I don't expect much from them - but I can let them know how I feel.

andyp wrote:

trennie wrote:

pipechanter wrote:

Pretty evident that this album was churned out for commercial purposes.  It - based on the theme and track listing - doesn't reflect Susan's artistic capacity.

I highly doubt that the expressed disappointment of fans on a few sites is going to negatively affect Susan's ability to promote this album,  She's not stoopid, and has to have bought into the idea of this album being targeted as a commercial success.  

Hopefully, she has her sights set on something that demonstrates her artistry in the not-too-distant future.

I wonder if "artist" is in Susan's lexicon, as far as her career is concerned.  As she said in another context, "don't get ideas above your station".  I think she still hopes to become a professional singer.  I don't believe she's yet fully  aware of her capabilities.  I hope Andrew Pantone, her voice coach/teacher and tour Musical Director can help her push her boundaries.  He's certainly restored her voice, along with her own hard work.

BTW, "PA", the Brit sound engineer, who has been very helpful to both Susan's and JE's fandoms, said he had gotten hold of a full recording of Susan's concert (from the recent tour) and it had been a "revelation" to him.  Which, since he mainly works with classical singers, sounds good to me.

That's fine for this PA person to say.  We will not hear her artistry or talent if Susan continues on the way she is, giving us a cheesy cd just for commercial purposes.  I will never understand why some people think that expressing an opinion that you don't want this offering is an insult to Susan.  Her team has watched her cds dwindle from millions to about 400,000.  That should tell them something, but it doesn't seem to have.  I truly believe that if Susan was putting out the cds she is capable of people would be buying them.  Do I have the right to express my opinion about cd No. 5?  I certainly think I do.  There is no better way to let her team know that we expect more of cd No. 6.  I know that we can react by not buying the cd, but I don't think that is enough.  The slide in sales has not seemed to smarten up her team thus far, so I don't expect much from them - but I can let them know how I feel.

I agree with all that you have said in your post, Andyp. I will never understand why there has never been any attempt to have more original songs written for Susan. Of course, there is an original song on CD 5 but as it is presumably a hymn, I am not sure that it counts.

Thornton wrote:

andyp wrote:

trennie wrote:

pipechanter wrote:

Pretty evident that this album was churned out for commercial purposes.  It - based on the theme and track listing - doesn't reflect Susan's artistic capacity.

I highly doubt that the expressed disappointment of fans on a few sites is going to negatively affect Susan's ability to promote this album,  She's not stoopid, and has to have bought into the idea of this album being targeted as a commercial success.  

Hopefully, she has her sights set on something that demonstrates her artistry in the not-too-distant future.

I wonder if "artist" is in Susan's lexicon, as far as her career is concerned.  As she said in another context, "don't get ideas above your station".  I think she still hopes to become a professional singer.  I don't believe she's yet fully  aware of her capabilities.  I hope Andrew Pantone, her voice coach/teacher and tour Musical Director can help her push her boundaries.  He's certainly restored her voice, along with her own hard work.

BTW, "PA", the Brit sound engineer, who has been very helpful to both Susan's and JE's fandoms, said he had gotten hold of a full recording of Susan's concert (from the recent tour) and it had been a "revelation" to him.  Which, since he mainly works with classical singers, sounds good to me.

That's fine for this PA person to say.  We will not hear her artistry or talent if Susan continues on the way she is, giving us a cheesy cd just for commercial purposes.  I will never understand why some people think that expressing an opinion that you don't want this offering is an insult to Susan.  Her team has watched her cds dwindle from millions to about 400,000.  That should tell them something, but it doesn't seem to have.  I truly believe that if Susan was putting out the cds she is capable of people would be buying them.  Do I have the right to express my opinion about cd No. 5?  I certainly think I do.  There is no better way to let her team know that we expect more of cd No. 6.  I know that we can react by not buying the cd, but I don't think that is enough.  The slide in sales has not seemed to smarten up her team thus far, so I don't expect much from them - but I can let them know how I feel.

I agree with all that you have said in your post, Andyp. I will never understand why there has never been any attempt to have more original songs written for Susan. Of course, there is an original song on CD 5 but as it is presumably a hymn, I am not sure that it counts.

Well, of course, there has been a Sony effort to get originals on Susan's CDs. #1 had one, #3 had two. I believe in all cases, Sony encouraged songwriters to submit their work for Susan and Sony's approval. I know they did for The Gift, because we had songwriter tweets about submissions, but none of them made the cut. And I think the first approval is most important, because, as has been oft repeated, unless Susan connects with a song, "feels" it, she can not sing it effectively. It would be lovely if Susan found a songwriter who was attuned to her sensibilities. Let's hope he/she will show up in the next few years, in the meantime Susan and Sony will use the material at hand.

I think it's generally agreed that STWOM was Susan's most creatively interesting album, although IDAD was a close second. The producer matters and I've always thought Steve Mac did a wonderful job for her. On the other hand, like many producers today, Mac compiled tracks from bits and pieces of singing. I wonder if that was as artistically satisfying to Susan as recording whole performances. I don't know how Susan regards her singing and I don't think anybody, except Fred O'Neil and maybe, now, Andrew Pantone, do.

In my opinion, Syco sucks and it's obvious to me that Susan has very little artistic control over what is produced.  The repeating of OCOYF on this second Xmas CD is stark proof of that.  It's just mind boggling to me that she would go along with it and bring Elvis along for the ride as a hook.

The tracks of 60-year old Cher's new CD, "Closer to the Truth", are posted on Amazon.  Granted, a lot of autotuning, but it's an album of original songs - not covers, and Cher, like Susan, is not a writer of songs.  Someone's writing for her - it can be done.

Susan's career is "dead in the water" here in the States and I just don't see how this CD and that modest little Holiday film is going to give it a big lift.